Menopause Chats - Real Women, Real Conversations

Episode 22 - Ari - One man's perspective on menopause

• Erin Daruszka

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Ari and Erin have been friends for years and a recent private conversation turns public as they discuss menopause in marriage, particularly Ari's experience at a time when there was less talk about menopause. 

Ari is the creator and host of The PAUSE -- Podcast of the New Creative South (no relation to menopause - haha) featuring regular interviews and stories with disruptive artists, creators, and leaders of the New Creative South. Available on Apple, Spotify and other podcast platforms. 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thepausepodcast/


Erin is the creator and host of Menopause Chats. She is also a somatic and intuitive coach who helps women in the in-between live with more magic and intention through her signature approach The 5 Cs of Becoming Her. More information at: www.pauseandalign.com

The stories shared in Menopause Chats are not intended as medical advice, but for information and entertainment. Please seek a medical professional for specific advice regarding your menopause journey. 


SPEAKER_00

Hi everyone, welcome to Menopause Chats. I am your host, Aaron Druska. Today is a very exciting conversation, one we have not had yet, which is the male perspective on perimenopause menopause. I know you're probably thinking, do we really need a male perspective? We do. We do need to hear this voice. So I have my friend Ari here, who uh we've been having this conversation privately, and I was like, you should just come on menopause chats. So here, so here we are. Hi, Ari.

SPEAKER_01

Hey, good morning. I'm like, super, super exciting to be here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so in our private conversations around this, we've been talking, you know, we're we're both people of a certain age and have partners of a certain age as well. And I am curious for and for others to hear your perspective on being in a partnership with somebody who is going through the perimenopause-menopause process or has has gone through that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. Well, let's go back to the earlier one about the male perspective. It's definitely not the male perspective.

SPEAKER_00

You mean you're not speaking for all men?

SPEAKER_01

I've struggled with that one for a lifetime and a half.

SPEAKER_00

So you're like, let me say this first. This is my perspective as a male.

SPEAKER_01

It's my perspective as I identify as a male. Um, which will, you know, there's an interesting twist to that, actually. Um, but but kind of the vanilla version would be yes, um, about 20 years ago, um, yeah, my wife started to have uh perimetopa uh yeah, perimenopausal symptoms, and it started affecting our life and our relationship.

SPEAKER_00

And and I think, and then 20 years ago too. I mean, if it started 20 years ago, thinking back to like it's it's much more talked about, I think, today than it was 20 even 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_01

I remember us having a fight. Oh, yeah, not not a physical fight, right? Relationship an argument, a disagreement, let's put it that way. And we were clearly not, we are clearly aligned, but yet we were having a disagreement, which kind of blew my mind.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so the some of the symptoms were uh dryness in, you know, in in her region. And uh I was like, let's talk about that, you know, let's explore that. Like, what is that? Let's be curious about it. And she wanted to have nothing to do with it.

SPEAKER_00

I get it. Which there's this idea too of like, you know, you don't know what's going on, like for me, it's like, oh, I don't know what's going on with my body. I'd rather just not talk about it, bury it down. Like it's it's a little bit um, you know, I I often think about how just sexuality-wise, thinking of like, cool, I kind of like hold these sort of puritanical views. I don't want to have them, but like it's sort of just like, oh, we don't talk about this, that um idea of maybe shame around like what's happening with my body, I don't want to tell you what's happening with my body, I don't want to bring attention to it. And it makes it harder to have these conversations.

SPEAKER_01

It exactly. And I and I think you know what I remember about that moment, which did not, it was not confined to one day. It was an extended period of time where things that like the activities that we took for granted that we enjoyed together were starting to change beyond what like our intention. And so it became a challenge. And at the same time, you know, now I can tell you, like it added a such an a dimension. It was like a relationship struggling to have greater dimension, but the society was like, as you said, there was no conversation at all about it.

SPEAKER_00

Right. It's just like, you know what? Nope, shop's closed.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And you know, so I'll just express my side of it was like I remember saying this. You're shutting me out. And it was that's that's not what she was doing. Yeah, it was my interpretation of change that that I didn't understand. And I not understanding things when we don't understand them, wow. Um, hello. Yeah, it's an easy forecast that it's gonna be a rough and rocky road.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because when we don't, with lack of information or lack of communication, we make up our own stories. They're normally not positive.

SPEAKER_01

Normally not positive, not at all.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and I mean, both of us are coaches, so we know and we see that when we're coaching people, is like the stories that they tell themselves, and you're like, how do we know that's true?

SPEAKER_01

Now, just just yeah, it's a great point. So, but at that time, Aaron, I was not a coach.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01

So would it have been different? Maybe. I would say probably. But let's face it, many people are not coaches, yeah, right. And just anyone, like when I think about my children and uh especially my daughter, or if my son, whoever that he eventually his person, I would absolutely be thinking about you know, offering them perspective and an invitation to be curious around the physical, you know, and we talked about this uh a couple times ago, the endocrine system, you know, like to me, I'm fascinated by anatomy. I mean, as a mover, dancer, performing artist, podcaster, I mean, musician, I care a lot about the body and what the body can do to express itself. And at the end of the day, that was a moment that was really challenging. And I would really encourage uh, you know, when I go back and think about that time and that there were no books.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

You know, a book like I know here's a here's oh, this is what I wanted to tell you last time. And I was like, I'm gonna hold this out for the for your podcast. The book, um, What to Expect When You're Expecting, was a very popular book for um generally, I think for women, but I mean it was I think it was for couples where uh they were pregnant and they were about to go through the you know the journey um of pregnancy. And that was a book that I that was very helpful. Even if I didn't read every chapter, A, it existed. I knew uh you know Denise would absolutely read every page and C, it would help our relationship. And if there were a book today about what to expect when you whatever this phase is, which I I call a form of eldering. I I I believe that nature and our our bodies um prepare us for different phases of life. And I I believe this is the one that's part of the eldering process. And I look to the whales, to the orca whales, who also the females go through menopause as best we understand.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I think I don't know if did you see the email I sent you? I did, I know it was so good. So I was watching something else and I was like, whales! Um but it was about the idea that like there are other mammals that go through menopause, but it's really about then centering around uh connection and passing wisdom on to the younger generation. Hello, this podcast.

SPEAKER_01

Hello, right, exactly. This podcast, to me, I think I said that to you, is like this is a form of eldering where wisdom can surface that the the the that the folks who are gonna be eventually going through this where they're going through it now, very, very relevant. Um, and again, uh occupying a vacuum where you know, where the prediction is a hundred percent we're gonna make up stuff about this, interpret it when we don't have information and we're not curious.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I'm not a doctor, and so it's really for me is about surfacing people's individual conversations and experiences. There are other people who are doctors who are doing their own thing, and that has its place as well. And there are some books you were talking about. One of the ones that um I actually had marked a section for my husband to read because it talked just exactly about what we were talking about, uh, what's happened with me and my husband and you and your wife, um, around, you know, the disconnect. It's the book's called The Upgrade, and it is about the disconnect of like, you know, a woman has physical symptoms, so whether it's dryness, pain, you know, uh just discomfort, and then pushing away because it hurts, right? And then the men not understanding or the male partners not understanding that this is what's going on because we're not talking about it, and that you know, you, you, you, are um you problem people already. No, no, not at all. It's uh that the the male needs that emotional intimacy, like that they're using sex as a means to connect, and when that's cut off, then feeling emotionally disconnected, and then that pushes them away more, and you know, so then you're just creating this chasm versus being able to have the conversation to say, listen, I'm having these physical symptoms, which is making me want to push away. And you interpret my pushing away as not wanting you as a partner, as a person, as a as a you know, husband, and you know, and then how do we bridge that? It's like here's what's happening. What else could we do to um be you know emotionally connected?

SPEAKER_01

Right. So, which is a really interesting open door here to say that Denise is a physician.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So that so we're in this first couple of years of this perimenopause, and I'm I'm thinking to myself, this is a physician? Like, what kind of training do you have that doesn't allow for us to have a conversation, just not even an emotional conversation, a physical. And I'm like, Wait, that was a wake-up call. Like, oh, is there is there discrimination, is there sexism within the medical field? And I'm the answer was uh very clearly yes. And it was amazing because Denise is so um, you know, she she's like as a as a pathologist, she's just a phenomenal diagnostician. And to be able to not to be a diagnostic, if I just empathize sort of with her perspective and think like, if I were an amazing, even if I were just a sufficient diagnostician and I couldn't diagnose myself or ask anyone how to diagnose myself, that just indicates like for me and my experience would be like I need to change and challenge my perspective and not take for granted that the medical community is is is sexist free.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's just not. And that that kind of discrimination boils my blood.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, and there's also, you know, there are books about that as well.

SPEAKER_01

Now now there are. Now there are.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. There, yeah, just about how, you know, one uh this isn't hasn't been studied. There was a bad study, there's a flawed study that like sort of putting a few years ago. The flawed study, yeah. The estrogen flawed study that I heard about over 20 years, probably around the time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, just around the time.

SPEAKER_00

And so, you know, there's this all of this misinformation, and now finally stuff is starting to be studied more. But then also if you look historically, people didn't always live to be as old as we are now. So sometimes they're you know, the there women weren't going through this because, you know, and then we weren't studied, and so you know, if we weren't studied, I I get into this whole idea of like, is it because you know, after childbearing years, who cares? Like you're of no use. And you know, as someone who chose not to have children, too, it's even more of like an F you. It's like, was I always useless? Because I wasn't, you know, allowing my body to reproduce, you know.

SPEAKER_01

It's really well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um did we open up this can of worms?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think there's a lot of worms here. Um I I'm I'm hearing you for sure. Uh what also boils my blood, and and and one of the reasons I started the podcast was that for me personally, it was a process of eldering. A really good friend of mine and I were camping, um, and we were talking about, you know, what was what was our next chapter after our um he he was a therapist and a coach. Um and we he lent he suggested it. He was like, you know, all right, I I think you could really do a podcast. I'm like, okay, cool. And but I gave myself about three months to research, and for me, eldering was the call at that point. And culturally, what you just mentioned is really, I think, extremely uh powerful mention. Like the fact that you could feel, Aaron, because I know you pretty well, that you're gonna feel your feels pretty quickly and you're gonna be curious about them. For you to think, or for me to think, or anyone to think, that we are useless beyond a certain phase of our life is horrendous.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I started the podcast to to bring forth and to help others and and to the community to create a sense of that no, the there's no cliff just after your regular career or your time to you know um reproduce. Yeah, and you you're an inspiring person, and because of that, I think you are reproducing some sense of the wisdom, which is life anyway, right? I mean, I I want to think that. I maybe I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it's uh the idea of like birthing ideas or birthing other things, not a human.

SPEAKER_01

Right, right. But but is that is is that that shouldn't be problematic for us.

SPEAKER_00

Well saying, and those years are not over, they're just starting.

SPEAKER_01

I'm sure let's hope so because you I I love your podcast, and I know that's gonna be a contribute to a greater, greater good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's interesting to me too, like the idea of um yeah, where do you you know that is part of what I do in my coaching now? Like my coaching has shifted and changed over the time that I've been a coach. And I right now really want to work with women to understand that like this is the beginning, it's not the end. Because people think like, oh, it's the end. Like I'm going through this thing. Like you said, it's this cliff, and now we and we've all jumped off and that's it. But it's really the beginning. It's like where, you know, this is a great time to go back and look and say, where do I, what do I want to do? What did I believe in the first half of my life that isn't true anymore? And what can I do now? Live more intentionally, live more magically, because there's no other time than now. But also at this age, I feel like there's a big like, I just don't care as much. I don't care what people think about me, I don't care if you like me. I just I I love that part. I I do too. I spent so much of my earlier life worrying about what other people thought, feeling like I didn't fit in, realizing that like I don't need to fit in. Like this is who I am, and if you don't like it, cool. But for the I always say for the right people, I'm the right person. For the wrong people, they're gonna be like, uh yeah, see you later. Cool. I love when people unlike follow me. I literally, when I see that, like if I see my number go down, I go, thank you. Thank you for leaving. Yeah, thank you for seeing yourself out.

SPEAKER_01

Don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way up. Yeah. So what I like about what you're saying is like, especially from the partner of the person going through um husbanding, you know, what what what is what's the importance of husbanding? And fathering is different than I think than husbanding. Um fathering for me, you know, I'm gonna get emotional if I if I talk about my kids and the phase of where they are and my relationship to them, which is has always been changing, but it's more salient today.

SPEAKER_00

Because you have adult children.

SPEAKER_01

I have adult children. Uh oldest one is uh engaged now. We're in the wedding planning phase, and um son just was with me uh here here in Tennessee, and um he's in a really exciting part of his life, and that means for me, changing and and advocate helping advocate, but also stepping back, you know, a little bit more and and being less central as a uh a powerful figure. Um I think husbanding, on the other hand, for me is is that amazing opportunity to it's like coaching, but I would never want you know anyone who's a husband to necessarily consider themselves a coach. There are things though that in the game, honey.

SPEAKER_00

Not that kind of coach, by the way. Not that kind of coach.

SPEAKER_01

Sorry, yeah, but leadership coaching, life coaching, things like that. That's that good point. Thanks for that. Thanks for that.

SPEAKER_00

Get back out there.

SPEAKER_01

But it is like it in a way, it's like you there's a game. Like if you if I go with the sports metaphor, right, which is pretty dominant uh for coaching, you know, the husband will say, you know, hey, as a coach, would be like, This there's a game, there's there's there's quarters still left, you know, in basketball or football. You know, there's still time to play. And maybe this is the time to start to to grow and change and say to yourself, you know, those things that I sort of thought about when I was a little little one, um, and I want to pick that up again and at least explore it. There's a phenomenal value to that. And and I make that really clear. And when I figure that out, you know, which I don't know when it was, but it was probably last week.

SPEAKER_00

Now I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_01

Oh thanks, Aaron. All right, we're done. We're done.

SPEAKER_00

You're like, thanks, I'm so glad I was here.

SPEAKER_01

I'm good. You can get back to your podcast now. Yeah, it happened sometime after that initial dis that divergence. Let's call it divergence. Yeah, we we started to come back together once we had some curiosity, and but then I could start to see, you know, okay, well, guess what? Like the physical parts, which we're stepping over, and I want to get to that part too. But I think there is at the end of this, the the act three here is that there is no end. Um, and you've got a lot to offer. Any, any, I would say that to anyone, and I think to say that to the partners of people going through uh the menopausal cycles, um, don't give up. There's there's don't give up. They seek help, get the help, um, not even help, it's just shifting your perspective. You make a difference because these people love you, you love them, and they want to feel like you're behind them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so it's like then it's being curious, right? Being curious and open to having the conversation, to realizing, like, oh, something's going on that I don't know about that she might not know about either. And let's let's talk about this together without there being any judgment, right?

SPEAKER_01

That's right. And that, depending on who the personalities and things like that, can be very difficult. For us, it was a long journey. And if the sex part of things, if there was intercourse, whatever we want to call it, I sure surely have never been public about comment commenting about this. So this will be a first for me.

SPEAKER_00

Oi. You're very red right now.

SPEAKER_01

My hair used to be the same color, but it's not anymore. I, you know, if I look at that journey, it took a long time. Yeah, it was not an overnight journey, and there was some. If I actually broke it down, I think there would be some actual phases to it. Um, but where we are now, like, yeah, the pain, let's go back to the physical part, the pain. How can something that was so pleasurable turns relatively quickly so painful? And what that does is it it has the potential to to to cause and feel difference. Um that is a challenge that uh I wasn't ready to make because I didn't know, no one told me what to expect when Denise was going through this process. And I did advocate to talk to different doctors. Um, I was willing to go and listen. That's not something she wanted initially because there was probably a lot of societal shame. Um and there were no books and there were no errands.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So be like, this is normal. This is just like we're so you gotta get through it. You gotta figure out how to get through it. And each person's journey is gonna be different, right?

SPEAKER_01

But it's like, how? I I it's just daunting.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like, okay, so we can make some modifications to the way Sure. Sorry, I think we I'm sorry, you're yeah, sometimes on Zoom, it's always when we get into the good parts.

SPEAKER_00

I know, I know. Um, but you were saying like it took it to it it took some time.

SPEAKER_01

It took some time and and and it when you're busy in your life and you're you know at that point we were still raising uh it was about 10-15 years ago. Um started 20 years, but you know, through the process, yeah, the kids were still in high school, middle, late middle school, high school age, and you know, wife's busy, you're working, they're working, you know. Who has time to go through that process without a book, without a podcast, without a voice that you can listen to? And certainly like you you want to believe, like, oh, well, just ask, you know, your parents, my parents, the if they're grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins.

SPEAKER_00

But you don't want to ask them about that. Like, I for me it's like no, no, you don't.

SPEAKER_01

You you want to you want to know that they're looking out for you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But the answer is they themselves didn't have any permission to explore that.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I didn't know who to go to and I went to my doctor, but like I was being treated for symptoms that and it just wasn't helping because the underlying issue was hormonal. And once that got addressed, it made a difference. But still, to get to that point, I mean, it's it's a long road. And to your your point of like, it's painful. Like, I know what happens in my relationship, it's like, oh, it's painful. I wince. Then that, then he's like, oh, it it's like this. Then it's like, oh, well, it's over, you know, because now I'm not comfortable, you're not comfortable, you know, or I don't want to hurt you. And it's not that you're in it, it there's nothing I can do about it, you know. So so learning, like, are there other ways, or what can help? Like for me, it was a cream that actually uh both estrogen and testosterone mix because the estrogen alone didn't help me. Um and every again, everybody's different, but like things to explore with your doctor of like this may help. And or, you know, I know that I I didn't go this route, but I do know that there are uh, you know, sex therapists who can help people and say, okay, well, here's you know, different positioning or different ways. Um, you know, so there are other options out there for people depending on their comfort level. But to to your earlier point, like sometimes people just aren't comfortable with themselves, and then talking to their even if they've been with their partner for 20 years, having that conversation.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we tried, I think back in the day was like, you know, the the lubricants as if to solve dryness as a problem. Um, that's certainly the lens that we were looking at. It was, you know, I would say it's at best marginally um eased things. Um it was still really painful. And then the problem then is because we were in such a vacuum back then uh of knowledge and curiosity, uh, that pain persisted as a trauma, I think, a traumatic response.

SPEAKER_00

I guess psychological psychological.

SPEAKER_01

And so then then it became even more difficult because if you know you're in the person going through it, what I empathized with and intuited was like, oh it's painful, and I don't even want to talk about pain. Right.

SPEAKER_00

And it's painful, so I brace, right? And bracing, that's not a good way. It doesn't help, it doesn't help with muscle problems. Like if you're you know, it's almost like if someone's gonna punch me, I'm gonna like I'm gonna brace. And that's what happens, you know, psychologically as well. At least for me, that's what happens. Like I'm expecting pain, so I brace for it, which just causes more tension, which causes pain. It's a lovely cycle, it's a very lovely cycle.

SPEAKER_01

And bottom line, it's just a beautiful cycle, and it's so helpful to relationships and matters of matters of the heart. Sure. Uh yeah. So um, and then from my perspective, it was like everything was like you know, when you're dancing with someone who's just afraid, yeah. Um then you start to get into that space of like, oh whoa, I don't want to do that. I don't, it's more about what you don't want to do rather than following the impulses of what you do.

SPEAKER_00

Instead of bringing people together, it pulls them apart.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then you've got to learn to bridge that. Or, you know, I think we had this conversation before too. A lot of people in our age group will divorce.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's um such a high percentage, I think.

SPEAKER_00

I think I saw somewhere. Yeah, I think I saw somewhere the other day. I can't remember the exact number, but it's it's like the highest population right now of divorce rates is in this like sort of 50 plus.

SPEAKER_01

Uh 50 plus age, but I think that the percentages are even much greater than 50.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, oh no, yeah. But I mean it's just like in like the age in this age range, it's like the highest grouping of people who are getting divorced.

SPEAKER_01

Right. No, no, for sure. And I'm gonna be honest with you, I it's not like we didn't consider that because it was so frustrating.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I don't know how there was just I, you know, some of them.

SPEAKER_00

And mine was around the same time as the pandemic. So it's like, you know, starting there, and then like, you know, and you know, our our friend Nancy, like, bless her, she let me live in her house for a little bit because she wasn't there because she was at her beach house. And so it gave me space and it gave us time to be able to come back together. But it was, you know, there was a moment, like you said, where it's like, you know, is this is this where it goes? Is this is this it?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, let's let's let's think it through rationally as best we can. It's probably for those who are unwilling to go through a process of patience and curiosity and and are more grounded in who they are, it's probably the path of least resistance.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Not to judge it, right? I'm not gonna hear to judge it, I'm not here to defend one system or institution over the other, but it's certainly a source of uh of challenge. And I'm so grateful to, you know, when you said last year to me, you're gonna start, you know, um a podcast about menopause. I was so excited because I knew firsthand, you know, like that would have been a game changer. I mean, just a game changer, you know, would we have wanted to explore that, some of the topics from from the podcast for sure, but we were just in the desert. We were in the desert, and any glass of water would have been so refreshing and would have encouraged us and give us a sense of uh of of hope, I guess, or something like that, even though I don't believe in hope right now.

SPEAKER_00

But um back in the day, that's for another day, that's a different conversation, right?

SPEAKER_01

Um, but yeah, I so you know what did I learn was that patience is super important, um persistence is important, not with you know forcing anything, but to take a step back, you know, and that's what my podcast is about is about taking a step back. When do you know when does society give us permission to take a step back, even on a weekly basis? Um, because we are in the Bible belt, you know, there is a Sabbath and there's a purpose to Sabbath. Um, and I'm not saying it has to be institutionalized, but even in a day, even in a moment where we learn, you know, best practices of just getting through our day, where we take a two-minute break, a five-minute break, where we can breathe, we can settle, you know, we can say, you know, what's what what am I experiencing now? And not that's not gonna necessarily shut me down for the rest of the day. There's a lot, there's a lot there in a relationship. That was the time. I think that's what the the beginning of that cycle's about, and then to start to issue, uh usher in the next phase because it's gonna happen. You know, at certain point you're you know, the person experiencing these symptoms is no longer gonna be able to to to reproduce.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and you know, and work that we've done together around you know, the opportunity to respond versus react, right? And so what many people do at this time is they react when really they should get curious and pause. Yeah, and then respond to each other.

SPEAKER_01

That's right.

SPEAKER_00

Uh well, this has been a great conversation. I'm so grateful that you joined me and you were like, yes, I'll do this. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Uh thank you for listening, watching. Uh, please comment, share. And if you're interested in being a guest, please reach out to me. Uh we um, all right, why don't you before we leave tell people about your podcast and then I can put in the show notes how to find you.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. Yeah, we've uh we just finished our first or we're finishing our third season. Uh we've got close to 65 episodes out. Uh it's called the pause. Interesting. It doesn't have an apostrophe pause, um, and which would indicate menopause. But so my show is about pausing and uh it's around the south, you know, the creative folks in the south today whose art and cultural activities are leading the way to usher in a new form of of art that wrestles with you know difficult parts of um of life here in the south. Uh so that can be found uh on Apple and Spotify. Uh we're big Apple you know partners and uh also at thepaws.alitu, as we like to say, a-li-tu uh dot com, which is our home base. Uh we're we're uh launching a whole bunch of stuff this summer in anticipation of season four, which uh is you know it's gonna begin in September. We'll we'll be in reruns, but come visit us, catch up on the on the show, um, and uh look forward to having you.

SPEAKER_00

Great. Thank you again. Thank you, everyone. And we will see you next time.

SPEAKER_01

Great. Thanks, Aaron.