Episode 19 - Lisa discusses her journey & how to feel better at any age

**This is not a sponsored post**
In this episode Erin talks with Lisa Williams, CEO of Hello Again shares some simple tools for feeling better at any age and her own experience with Hello Again that made her buy the company. 

Connect with Lisa on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hellolisawilliams

More information about Hello Again: https://helloagainproducts.com/

Erin is the creator and host of Menopause Chats. She is also a somatic and intuitive coach who helps women in the in-between live with more magic and intention through her signature approach The 5 Cs of Becoming Her. More information at: www.pauseandalign.com

The stories shared in Menopause Chats are not intended as medical advice, but for information and entertainment. Please seek a medical professional for specific advice regarding your menopause journey. 

Transcript

unknown 0:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hi everyone. Welcome to Menopause Chats. I'm Erin Daruska. Today I have Lisa Williams with us. So thank you, Lisa, for being here today.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Thank you, Erin. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Of course. So tell us a little bit about your women's health journey.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Oh my gosh. Where do I start?

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Wherever you would like.

unknown 0:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

So I'm I'm one of these women who I feel like I try all the things to be as healthy as possible. And somehow throughout my whole life journey, things have gone wrong. So let's start when I was 21 years old. I was rushed to the hospital with severe pain in my right side. They thought it was my appendix that had burst. They rushed me into surgery. Come to find out I had cysts on my ovaries that had aspirated. And they took my appendix anyway.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Right? While we're in here, it's just taking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Um, so that that's kind of where it started. It it led to infertility, it led to a miscarriage. Um, I had very large fibroids in my uterus, which I had surgery for, and it's called a myomectomy, where they preserve your uterus because I still had not had babies yet, and I wanted to have children. Um, but they which we thought was the reason or the cause for the infertility and for the miscarriage. So they take out the fibroids, but then leave your uterus intact, which then led to two C-sections because I couldn't deliver vaginally. Um, the fibroids come back, they balloon up to the size of a five-month fetus. I I looked like I was pregnant, my belly was super distended and ended up having a hysterectomy at the age of, I think I was like a little over 45 at that time. Which then you start feeling all the effects of menopause, right? I mean, they kept my ovaries intact, but they just took my uterus and my cervix. I was also going through a brutal divorce. I was moving, I was selling my house that my kids grew up in, and I had just lost my job. Like and any one of those things is is a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So kind of threw myself into menopause, perimenopause, and and then all the stressors that that you know stack on top of that. And I remember calling my doctor shortly after I had moved and completed the divorce and you know, got all that stuff settled. And I said, I don't know if it's me, I don't know if it's what my hormones, I don't know if it's stress, probably a combination of all, but I feel like crap and something has to change. So they ran blood work. Of course, everything is normal, but the only thing that was abnormal that came back was my testosterone, was two. Two, which will flatten you completely. And they were they were like, We don't even know how you're functioning at a test. Like, I don't either. Yeah, well, I'm not. I'm not. Um, my hair started falling out, also, like it, Erin. You know, the the drain in the shower, it was covered with my hair. I started getting patchy bald spots everywhere. I mean, it's just it became a nightmare. I've had my thyroid removed, I had a goiter on my right thyroid. So there's just, I feel like there's just been one thing after another. And I'm 57, and I was just looking for ways to help improve my health naturally and hormone-free. And so I landed on a little company called Hello Again, tried the product, loved it so much. I bought the company. I mean, that's the short version.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

You have to really love something and believe in it to be like, I'm, you know what? I just I'm just gonna buy this.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

I'm just gonna buy it.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah. I mean, let me go back and say um, I went to a functional medicine doctor, spent thousands of dollars on numerous tests, lots of um supplements. I felt like, you know, the little lady who's dividing my pillbox. And I'm taking probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 to 20 supplements a day. And I'm thinking, this cannot be good for my liver and my kidneys. And I don't know, maybe at the end of the day, I just had really expensive urine, you know, right? Yeah, uh, so I just decided I need to find something that works for me. I quit all of that, I stopped taking supplements, I um stopped going to see all these different specialists and doctors, and I just started listening to my body to figure out what works for me, how do I make this work for me? I was eating what I thought was clean. I was exercising, doing heavy lifting. I gained 25 pounds out of nowhere, all in my belly, could not put my jeans on, my boobs are spilling out of my bra. Like it, it just I felt miserable, inflamed. So, all this to say there is hope. And and you can fix yourself with a little help, with a lot of help, you know, whatever works. I'm of the belief that you find your own recipe and you find your own cocktail. Yeah, and whether that means hormones, whether that means hormone-free, whether that means a combination of both, whether it means lifestyle changes, whatever you need to incorporate to figure out what works for you, uh I'm all for it. Because we're each an individual person, right? Our body is composed of our cells that are different from your cells, and what's gonna work for you, it might not work for me.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

So I mean, even just having conversations with friends who've tried like menopause hormone therapy, they're just like this, like either it worked or like nothing happened, nothing changed. And it's like, yeah, and everybody's which is why I started doing these conversations, is because everybody's menopause journey is different. Everybody's. So it's not like you can say, like, oh, my this is my experience, and you know, your experience will be exactly the same. It's like, no, your experience may be absolutely nothing like this.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

So, I mean, I'm gonna give you a perfect example. I had everything, I had shoulder pain, hot flashes, mood swings, brain fog, night sweats, um, anxiety, weight gain. I mean, like a big combination of things. My sister, who's five years younger than I am, has hardly felt anything. She might have had a couple of hot flashes. Yeah. And so everybody's different. Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

You just because I've had some people say, Well, I've asked my mom, and it's like, it doesn't, it's like it's like you're saying, like, oh, my sister, nothing, you know, it's different, different.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Yeah, and even though we're related, it's it's different. But I think also um I'm a huge believer in lifestyle factors first. So like I like to fix the body, um, the underlying issues first, and then move towards whatever you need to supplement with or add to. Uh, I'm also a certified menopause coach because I felt like I needed to learn more for myself, but also to share and teach and empower my audience with knowledge as well.

unknown 7:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah. And that was, I think we were chatting about that earlier. If like that was my thing too. It's like, oh, now I want to know all these things. So it's like, if I didn't know these things, who, you know, who else doesn't know these things? A lot of people. It's like, how do you how can you help people just know that one just have information's power, right? So the more you know, the more then you can make an informed choice to your, you know, as you were saying, like it's not, you know, it's not a one size fits all solution. So if I at least know, armed with information, that's why I always tell people like talk to your doctor. Like that's what I like about my practitioner is that she is just like, hey, I'll talk to you about all different options. Like, I'm not just gonna say you need to take a patch or you need to be on a pill or you need to, it's like, no, let's talk about what makes sense for you for anything, actually, because I see her for stuff beyond menopause. But you know, it's like, oh, do I need to be on a statin? It's like, well, the cardiologist thinks so, but like I have friends who are doctors and they're like, Yeah, every cardiologist will want you to get on a statin, and that's not fair. And so, you know, my doctor and I talked about it and I was like, you know, I think I'm just gonna wait it out. You know, I was like, I don't, I don't feel like for me right now, I don't feel like that's the the right choice. And so, you know, and she honors that versus being like trying to shame you into being like, well, no, you need to be on it.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Right. And I also feel like doctors, like you just said, the cardiologists, they're gonna do what they're taught and told to do, right? Um, your OBGYN is gonna do what he or she is taught and told to do. A lot of uh OBGYNs don't even have menopause training. It's like this much. And so we have to be our own advocate. And that, you know, given my journey, given all of the issues that I had, I want to empower women to be their own best advocate. To find you, you could talk to your doctor, but your doctor is not gonna know you, it's not gonna know your body, and you have to listen. I can I think that it just goes back to me figuring out how to listen to my body. Yeah. Um, there's a quote that I saw somewhere that said, if we listened to our body when it whispered, we wouldn't have it wouldn't have to scream.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

So, you know, just how did you find it? Like, how did you sort of tap into that for yourself? Of like knowing what I tend to hypo be a hypochondriac. So, like what like how how what advice do you have for people of like how do you get to that, like listening to your body without it being like every little thing is like I Googled it and now I'm dying.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Yeah, because we're all dying, right? Um I just okay, so let me just start with my shoulder pain. I I literally could not lift my arm, probably more than this, without excruciating pain. There was no way I could do a push-up or a pull up or you know, lift a weight. I mean, yeah, like any of that. It was really, really excruciating pain. I literally felt like I had to sit there with my arm like this in order for it to not be painful. So I didn't want to do surgery. I didn't want to go do injections. And I was like, what is it that I could do naturally to help fix that? So I'm of the belief that everything that goes wrong inside our body is caused by inflammation. Everything, like any pain, any a headache, a shoulder pain, it's all caused by inflammation. So, how do you start to reduce the inflammation in your body? And that's where I started. I walk every morning at sunrise. So, sunrise is free red light therapy in your eyes, on your skin, on your hair, in your body. You know, they sell red light therapy. It's all over the place. You could buy the masks, you could buy the helmets, you could buy go lay in a go lay in a bed if we're in. Yeah, so why is red light therapy so popular? Well, because it works, but you could get it for free if you go outside at sunrise every single and at sunset, both morning and night, you know, book in your days. For me, it just works. I have a puppy, we get up early and we're out at sunrise and we walk three miles. And so that was the first thing that I started doing is okay, I can't go lift heavy because of my shoulder, but I can walk. So started walking at sunrise, and then I started investigating and reading more about the sunrise and the red light and what it really does for you. And you know, we have uh receptors in our eyes. Um I hope I'm saying this right, super chmatic. I'm I don't know if I'm gonna say it right, nucleus. But when we get red light from the sun in our eyes, it sends signals to our body to start raising our cortisol, which is the good cortisol. So morning is starting, you know, elevate the cortisol, suppress the melatonin, and um increase your hunger horn, you know, your your hunger. And it's like starting your day. And then that also helps you go to sleep better at night. So, you know, there's this this whole like um flywheel that there's just all these things that tie into together. So that was the first thing I did was just how can I move my body without causing more pain?

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Yeah. Well, and too, like for me, like I feel like I always say like that sleep is the bottom of the pyramid. Like, and if if you have a good solid sleep foundation, which we know a lot of times during perimenopause, menopause, it gets thrown off by night sweats and and things like that. But or for in my case, like having to go to the bathroom a couple of times in the middle of the night, right? But having that, you know, if if the base of the pyramid can be solid, you know, then great. But if your sleep's off, everything kind of ends up being off as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Everything. Yeah. I mean, I put a post out today on LinkedIn that talked about libido. I mean, if you're not sleeping well, how why would you want to have sex? Like you're exhausted, your body's exhausted, your mind is exhausted. But as you said, when you have that foundation built in and you're getting a good night's sleep, your mood's gonna improve, your sleep's gonna improve, your appetite's gonna, you know, everything's gonna improve from from the sleep. Yeah. So there's yeah, go ahead. Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead. So, so that was the next part was figuring out, okay, what time do I need to go to bed? What time do I need to eat? Uh, I started learning how to basically eat with the seasons and eat with the light of the sun. So not eating past dark, um, eating with eating what grows in the sunlight at this time of year, and and just making that connection. So I'm sure, like you can, I could go to the grocery store today and I could probably buy any kind and every kind of fruit available: berries, mangoes, apples, oranges, bananas, etc. A lot of it is not in season, but we get it because it's flown in or trucked in from Mexico or South America or Peru or Chile or wherever. And that's their summer because that's what's in season there. But we truck it into the US and we just make everything abundant. And really, that's not how our bodies were designed. We're not designed to eat fruit in the winter, even though we're accustomed to it because we this is where we have it all the time. Yeah, we have it all the time. Like, let's have a bowl of fruit, let's have a bowl of berries, let's have, and so learning to figure out what's in season and eat what's in season with what the light of the sun is growing in your particular area. Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Because like, you know, it when I lived in California, yeah, there was actually fruit most of the year, right? You know, but I now live in North Carolina, not so much.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Yeah, I mean, I live in Texas and you know, it's it's spring, so berries, strawberries in particular, are starting to grow and be abundant everywhere. So now I'll eat strawberries, but I didn't eat them back in November because they weren't in season. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Yeah, I love that. I it wasn't even something I've ever considered. So I was like, oh no. I mean, eating eating with the season makes sense. You know, it's particularly if you shop at farmers markets and things like that. It's like, oh, I'm gonna buy what's local and here, right? Yeah, um, which is why our farmers market is much smaller in the winter.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Exactly, same here. And I love shopping at the farmer's market. I buy fresh eggs and meats and you know, cheeses and soaps and all the things.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yeah, but I wasn't even thinking about like, oh, doing that, and with like, and then the interesting thing about the with the light, uh the first thing that pops in my head is like, oh, you'd have to stop eating really early in the winter.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

You do, but you know, for me, I I'm an entrepreneur and I get to set my own schedule. My kids are grown, so I'm not serving a family um or making dinner or whatever. So I could coordinate my meals when it works for me. I'm not saying that that works for everybody, and I know you know, you have families and you have husbands that come home at a certain time, wives that come home at a certain time, kids that and everybody's hungry. So I understand that I made it what worked for me and incorporated it for me.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Yeah, no, I'm it's it was just interesting. It was like not something I've ever was like, oh, that's kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Well, and as I've gone through this perimenopause, menopause women's wellness journey, I I'm I'm passionate about learning what works for me so that I can teach it to other women so that they don't have to go through some of the things that I went through. I had excruciating painful periods, so much so that I was literally popping Advil light candy, which I know probably destroyed my gut and more than that destroyed, you know, a whole lot of things. It couldn't have been good. I had piercing headaches, I um I was inflamed, I was bloated, I had backaches, I had leg pain, I couldn't get off the couch some days, I was doubled over in pain, I literally could not function. And so, how do I take all of that and with what my knowledge is today and help share that information with women who are younger than me? Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Yeah, that's my thing too. It's like, oh, like if I could just get to someone 10, and which is the great thing about have having intergenerational friendships as well, is that I have friends who are 10 years younger than me, and I can be like, oh, or I was talking to a woman the other day, and I you know, she said something and I said, How old are you? And she told me, I said, I was like, so I was like, Let me like help me help you. Been there, I was like, You're sounding like I did when I was your age, you know. So it's like, yeah, but I didn't know. And if you don't know, and I think you know, my algorithm is certainly you know towards menopause, and like I see a lot of this stuff, but I also realize that not everybody does. Right. Same thing, same, like it's like, well, everybody sees it, no.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

No, and we live in the circle, you and I, where that's a conversation that happens almost on the daily. Yeah, um, it's not a conversation outside the norm, you know, like people just don't sit there and have a conversation about menopause or perimenopause or your women's. I think it's more and more women are starting to talk about it. And as our generation, you know, the generation X starts to really bring light to it because our our parents, our moms, never shared anything with us. Never. Um, you know, I didn't I'm gonna give you a little bit of truthism here. I didn't even know all the exact ways to have a baby, like to get pregnant and have a baby when I was trying to have kids, which I had infertility, and there were like I had to, I didn't know that you only ovulated on this point in time. And you know, like I wasn't my mom didn't share these things with me. I didn't learn these things.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I and I didn't have kids, I chose not to have children. And but I think I guess I mean I feel like I knew that piece of it, but it's you know, it was always like in an effort to avoid.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Right, right. I mean, yes, I knew, but then there were things like I didn't know that you could take your temperature. I didn't, you know, there were just things that I didn't know. You know, I mean, if we're trying to get pregnant, my ex-husband and I, and we're spending the whole month trying to, it's like kind of pointless, you know? Like there's only a particular period of time. Yeah.

unknown 20:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

I think I only know from like watching TV shows and stuff where like it's a it's a thing, right? And someone's like, it's a thing. It's not, it's like it's time. Like we got like all the all the things are right. We gotta go. It doesn't matter what else you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Like, this is what we're doing right now.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Um what do you what do you feel like you wish you knew earlier? Or I guess what do you want other people to know?

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Yeah. Um, so going back to, you know, I felt like I was doing all the things right. I was a child of the 80s, an adult of the 90s. Low fat was the thing. High cardio, high impact, you know, exercise more, eat less. I can't tell you how many nights I ate a salad, just a salad. Yeah, like that was my dinner, which is detrimental to our health. You know, where's our protein? Where's our fat? Where's you know the balance in our meal? Just have a snack well. Can I tell you that you could eat 10 of them because you're thinking, this is fabulous. They're low fat. Yeah, they're not harming me in any way while you're piling on the sugar, right? And chemicals. And chemicals, yeah. And so I think what I would love to share is I wish I knew more about how to eat for my metabolic health, how to flip that switch from burning fat for fuel to glucose for fuel to back to fat for fuel. And and knowing that it's okay if you want a cookie or candy or whatever, but you can get back to burning fat for fuel if you teach your body and you learn how to do it. And that's been my Journey the last two years is figuring out how to flip that metabolic switch, which I feel like changes everything.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

And where do people find that out for themselves?

SPEAKER_00 22:13

I took courses, followed, you know, different physicians and clinicians. I did a lot of research. If you were to look at my AI chats, it's like tons of women's wellness research. It's just, I felt like there was something different. And I felt like I was doing something wrong. I don't even like to use that word doing something wrong. I wasn't doing what worked for me. Um, I mean, look, I can make a mean green smoothie. I almost want to gag when I think about it now, because I'm piling all kinds of stuff that I thought was healthy, and now I realize it's loaded with sugar, but natural sugars, but that's not sugars nonetheless. Yeah. Sugars nonetheless, but that's not what I needed first thing in the morning, right? You know, is to pile on the glucose. So just learning, I I taught myself, and that's one of the things, Erin, that I want to do is I want to teach this to other women. I want to incorporate um, you know, my menopause journey and my my women's wellness with lifestyle and and how can you bring it all together? And then the other thing is I I own a company that has, you know, we have vaginal suppositories, it's cannabinoids, so CBD, CBG, which is plant-based. And then how do you incorporate something that nature gives you naturally? We all have endocannabinoid receptors in our body. How do you incorporate that into your lifestyle as well? Because our endocannabinoid system is the master regulator of mood, temperature, sleep, inflammation, pain. It sits way up here, which we don't realize because it's not talked about. Everybody talks about your hormones. It is the regulator of your hormones. And when your hormones start to fluctuate, so do you does your endocannabinoid system receptors? And so you have to support them too. They're also your happy molecules, they're they have anandamine in them. That's what your endocannabinoid receptors are made of. And so when you feel depressed or anxiety or mood swings or mood change, it's because those receptors, your endocannabinoid system is dysregulated. So then how do you bring it back?

SPEAKER_02 24:33

And so, how like can your products work with like people who are still using hormone, you know, therapy of some sort?

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Sure. So the way I see it is you could use it by itself, you could use it with hormone therapy, you could use it in conjunction, you could do whatever works for you. We have on our website at helloaginproducts.com, shameless pug, plug. Plug in you can go and look at um, we have a drug interaction checker. So you could go to the product that you want to choose, and then let's say whatever you're on, estrogen, you know, progesterone, whatever, you could go plug that in and it will tell you what interaction will happen with that particular cannabinoid. And this is third party, it sits on top of our website. So I always like to think of you might need some extra support. I I know that I when I talk to women who have used estrogen and or testosterone or a combination or even progesterone, sometimes it's not improving their hot flashes or their mood swings or their sleep. And you might need a little bit of extra help. So I just think of it as a supplement. There's a lot of research out there on CBD. This is just the delivery method, it's different. You're not taking a pill or a patch or a tincture, it's a suppository. So it's delivered vaginally.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Um, and so so I'll let you all right share. So share again the name of your company, how people find you. I'll also put it in the notes.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

But yeah, it's hello again, and it's helloaginproducts.com. You could find us on Instagram, Hello Again Products. I also do a YouTube channel. It's it's simply Lisa Williams, and you could find me there. I share a lot of information about what I've shared with you a little bit in more detail about lifestyle as a holistic lifestyle changes as well as adding cannabinoids and how they they work together. Great. I'll add that in there as well so people can find you, of course.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

Thank you. Um, anything else that you um, I guess maybe hope hope to share with others or anything we we didn't cover that you're like, oh wait, people must hear this.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

I I think just for me, uh when I'm talking about metabolic flexibility and and flipping from fat to fuel to glucose to back, it's it's really leaning into ketosis. But I think what happens is people think of keto as a diet, right? Like we think of um keto like paleo or you know, like carnivore or whatever other diet you want to put out there. And keto is not a diet, it's a metabolic state that you get your body into. And so if I could just share that we have to eliminate the word diet from our vocabulary and just if we're so hard if you're a Gen X woman, because that's what we grew up with. Yes. Going back to the snack well cookies and the low fat and all of the things. Um, so really it's learning how to burn different fuels, and that's all you need to know. How do you burn fat for fuel versus how do you burn, but you know, when your glucose is depleted, when your glycogen is depleted, then you start burning fat for fuel. That's when the flip switches and you're in a metabolic conditioned state of ketosis.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Yeah, yeah.

unknown 28:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

I mean, uh my dad was a very, very large man. He was over 300 pounds, he was extremely overweight, he smoked, he ate every kind of cookie, candy, junk food that you can imagine. And I remember I was probably 10 or 11 or 12, and he had gone to the doctor, and the doctor had told him reduce your carbs and in and increase your fat, which was this was what 40 years ago. And it's it really is the case. Reduce your carbs and increase your fat.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Yeah, yeah. That's not what we were taught. It was like, you know, eat carbs or you could eat carbs, it was fine. Carbs are fine.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Yeah, well, sugar, but we didn't really like we weren't looking at labels when you and I were younger and going, oh my gosh, look at how much sugar's in here. We're looking at how much fat is in there.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Yeah. And then I was like, oh, but to into your point, like, oh, I can never like I was a guy I was a Weight Watcher's lady for so many years. It's like, how what zero point things can I eat?

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Yeah, which you don't know how much sugar's in there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

I mean, there was a lot of stuff that was like complete junk that I was because I remember they used to have these, um, they were like these muffin vita muffin things or something, and I would eat them, and it was like you could like they were one point, and it was like all chocolate, it was all sugar chocolate carbs. Like, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

I I mean, I think we we have this mentality of when somebody puts a diet out for us, whether it's a point base, whether it's, you know, macros and all. I don't do any of that. I don't count macros, I don't count calories, I don't do any of that. I just know I've taught myself enough how to flip that switch. And that that changed everything for me. It literally put me on this path to improving my life, which, you know, you like I said, I think we have to all find that on that that cocktail of that recipe. But I lost 25 pounds, I started feeling better, my brain fog, my moodiness, my inflammation, all of it started to improve. And then, you know, on top of that, I I'm using I'm using hello again. So, which is kind of sitting there as well.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

Yeah. Um, super helpful. Thank you so much for sharing all your information. Thank you for being yeah, oh my gosh. Um, and thank you all for watching, listening, however, however, you're taking this in. Um, feel free to share it with others. Feel free to comment. Um, if you're interested in being a guest, feel free to reach out. Um, we'd love to have you. Uh, otherwise, again, thank you so much for watching and listening. And Lisa, thank you so much for being with us.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Thanks, Erin.