Episode 12 - Michelle (A nutritionist's take on peri/menopause)

Join me in talking with Michelle about how her work as a holistic nutritionist helping perimenopausal women has been shaped by her own perimenopausal experience. 

Michelle's website: https://healthcoachmichelle.com/

Whole Life Nourishment Program (starting 9/21/25): https://healthcoachmichelle.com/nutrition/whole-life-nourishment/

Erin is the creator and host of Menopause Chats. She is also a somatic and intuitive coach who helps women in the in-between live with more magic and intention through her signature approach The 5 Cs of Becoming Her. More information at: www.pauseandalign.com

The stories shared in Menopause Chats are not intended as medical advice, but for information and entertainment. Please seek a medical professional for specific advice regarding your menopause journey. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hi everyone, welcome to Men and PauseChat. This is Erin Gerusca. Very happy to have uh Michelle with us tonight. Uh well, it's tonight because it's where I'm recording, but you might be watching this during the day. I don't know. But uh very happy to have Michelle here. Uh and she's got some interesting things that I think. I think it's gonna be an interesting conversation. I definitely think so, Erin. I'm so glad to be here. Thank you. So tell us a little bit, um, you know, one about what you do and like how that like and where what you do, how you got here and what it's like now.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Yeah, great. Well, um, I guess I'll start. I'm I'm currently 51 as we're recording this. I am a holistic health coach and certified nutrition consultant, and I have been for about 12 years. So this is a a second career for me. And um, in terms of my perimenopause menopause journey, or as I'm liking to call the transition and the upgrade, which I have taken from the book, The Upgrade, um, I am in what I call the the chaos, the chaos stage of perimenopause or or late stage perimenopause, um, which I can get into the details a little bit more later. But um yeah, so that's that's um I I think about health and well-being all the day. I coach people on their nutrition and their sleep and their mindset. And I can't wait to share with you this experience that I've had of going through perimenopause in my transition um with kind of almost like two brains, like my professional brain and then like my actual personal experience of what I'm going through.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

So sometimes it's easy to be like, oh, I can tell you what to do, but then when it comes to me, it's like, oh yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

And it's interesting. So when I did I went back to school to get a master's degree in health and nutrition education, and at the time I did not really want to do clinical work, but as I started working with more clients, I wanted to deepen my understanding and particularly around hormones. And so I got trained as a hormone cure coach with Dr. Sarah Gottfried, did a really, really deep dive, and I was really clear about where I could help and support lifestyle, uh nutrition, some supplementation. And I still feel okay about how I coached my perimenopausal and menopausal clients through all of that. But now going through it, now also with the information that I have, which is just so much more than I did 10, 11 years ago, um, I don't know. I just feel even more equipped to both professionally and from like a like a lived through experience, you know. And of course, everybody's experience is so different. That's the other thing that I'm also here to validate, both for your um listeners, our listeners today, and for anybody that's catching this, it's like there's no one experience of this. And so there's a lot of echoes or a lot of commonalities or a lot of ways that we can be like, yes, me too. And so I always love to have people walk away to feel like, okay, I'm not alone. There is a path forward. This can be a really empowering, amazing time. And also it's just gonna be so unique for everybody. So um, yeah, so it's I also have to give like deep compassion to myself in terms of like, we know better, we do better. Um, but yeah, absolutely. It has moved from from from reading and textbook and kind of clinical understanding to to deep embodiment. And and, you know, I think we'll kind of get into this a little bit more, but I think because of that, I was very aware that perimenopause was, you know, like I wasn't surprised. I've been thinking about this since my early 40s and just sort of kind of keeping an eye on things and working with other practitioners as well, keeping up on, you know, certain supplements that were working really, really well for me. Of course, dialing in my nutrition. I move my body all the time, um, doing the you know, mindfulness practice that is so, so important, thinking about my sleep. So I've been thinking about and you know, focused on all these different things. Um, but yeah, I would say at so now at 51 in the last three years, two, three years, things definitely started to shift and change even more, you know, than I did experience in my 40s.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

So and it makes me curious, it's like if you weren't even doing all these things that you were doing right beforehand, would it have been a different experience too?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

I know, I know, because I think my my on-ramp was not like pretty smooth and was pretty um, you know, I was just I was just aware and I'm and I'm well well resourced, right? Like if there was something that I had a question about or needed to see a health practitioner, you know, outside of my insurance coverage, I I was able to and I I knew to seek that person out and get that like next adjustment or tweak or whatever kind of needed to support me. And um yeah, and then and then you know that then things, you know, then things change to the the next level, and that's kind of where I am now.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

So I'm curious because you mentioned like, oh, you were studying like hormones, and was your original intention to work with like midlife women, or was it just like hormones in general that you were just curious about?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Just hormones in general, and I have to say, honestly, in the beginning I was kind of focusing a little bit more on like cortisol and thyroid and things like that, which of course are just as important, and that I was not doing a deep dive into the like the estrogen progesterone, you know, that was I was aware, I I was understanding of it, but it was not something I was like, oh, that you know, that just feels way more complicated and way more out of my scope of practice. And I still knew, you know, I still knew that there were so many things that we could do to lay a firm foundation. And also the firmest foundation when if your body's not gonna make estrogen anymore, like it's not making estrogen anymore. Or like I said, where my body is at right now, it's in the like highly fluctuating stage of the process. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

What would you say are those? What's the I'm I think I know, but uh um and maybe I don't. What would you say are the is like the firm foundation for folks?

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Oh well, the thing I tell people is regardless of, and so I tell myself too, regardless of what path, you know, if someone wants to do HRT, if someone doesn't want to do HRT, if someone wants to, you know, do other medication to support whatever might be coming up, or or supplements or energy work, whatever somebody is doing, you still have to eat, you know, like a couple times a day. You still want to move your body, you still want to be in connection with people. So I really talk about a lot of these foundations of um, you know, what what are we putting into our body to make our bodies feel satisfied and satiated and grounded and strong and feel good? Um and then, and it's kind of boring because I talk a lot about like protein and fiber, you know what I mean? Eat your vegetables, eat your protein, but it's important. And then, but I'm also really practical. So, you know, are you moving your body joyfully? Are we getting in some strength training? You know, that's been a big shift for me too, is really like getting my strength training in, feeling strong, focusing on strong over skinny, you know what I mean? Like, um, I want to be strong, I want to be powerful, I want to be able-bodied. Um, for me, perimenopause has shown up a lot in muscular skeletal stuff. Um, I that's not surprising to me given my body and my journey. Um, so it's one of the things I always like to talk about with people is that, you know, changes in hormones can be inflammatory and inflammation is gonna show up differently in different bodies, right? And so that's part of the reason why I think so many different people, you could pull, you know, 20 people, ask their perimetopause, menopause experience and get 20 different stories because it's just gonna show up a little bit differently for everybody, right? So yeah, so for me, it's it's definitely I'm keeping an eye on my joints, I'm keeping an eye on my joint inflammation, my muscles, right? Because I can really kind of feel it there. Um, and then the other thing for me, which was really surprising, um, was mood. I was not expecting the shift in mood that the shift in hormones was gonna create. Um, and and and I'm very open about this. I that's why I am on HRT and it's been really great for me. It's not the fit for everybody, but um, like I said, I was doing the exercise, I was doing the mindfulness, I have great community and connection, I dance, you know, doing all the things. And um, what started to happen for me is this real flat feeling. Like I was not, I used to get sort of this boost of energy after my period. I knew when I was ovulating, there was just this sort of like zest for life. I mean, hopefully you can tell, and people can tell, like I'm a I'm an energetic person. So when I'm not, I'm like, what's what's going on? And um more anxiety. And I again, I'm not an anxious person by, you know, like by by programming. And I started to feeling a lot more anxiety, and I was like, What, what is this? What what are all these things? Like I said, I felt like I was doing all the other things, and so for me, those were, you know, keeping an eye on my bones, my joints, and then that that mood piece were the the things that sort of said, okay, let me go talk to my doctor and and you know, let's see how this feels and how this goes. So that's what I'm saying. It's like I can't, you know, the HRT by itself would not solve anything. All these other things needed to be in place. But for me, knowing all these things were in place is like I'm doing all the things in my wheelhouse that I know how to do, but this is this other piece that maybe my body is missing and would feel better.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

And and controlling what you can control, right? So it's like, oh, control my interest, I can control my movement, you know, and the mood thing, I hear you. Like, I I tend to also be just I tend to be a pretty positive person, pretty upbeat person. And I've had more uh just days where I'm just like, I got the sads, you know, it's like that's just how I feel. Like there's not and it's an interesting for me, an interesting thing to observe, right? It's like, oh like I feel sad, I don't have any reason to feel sad, but I do, and I can't not feel sad right now. Yeah, yeah. So like there's this rational part of me that can like see that like I have no reason to be this way. So I know it's sort of a chemical hormonal thing and not related to like anything external. And I mean, well, there's other external stuff, but anyway, that's another podcast.

unknown 10:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

But I I, you know, I was like, oh, and so I I wasn't always thinking of because I think when in you know, it what's portrayed in the media around menopause is like the like rage, menopause rage, right? But it's not it's not always rage, it could be like, hey, I'm normally happy, go lucky, and today I feel really sad, or you know, I feel flat. Like that was I think that was a really great descriptor, right? And not just, you know, I didn't I never had the rage. I do know other people that do, but I don't I don't have that that has not yet.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

So yeah, yeah, no, I agree. I it's same same thing here, and I think that's part of which I love that you're doing this because so often the conversation is just about hot flashes and like that's it, right? Or rage and that's it, or you know, I don't know, there's just a lot of old conceptions about it, and it doesn't mean that you know that's not somebody's experience, but like again, for me, like I've had a hot flash, but it's not a thing in my life, you know, that's not like that's not the the thing that was the like tipping point for me to kind of seek the next level of support. Um and yeah, so it's yeah, it's just it's just been really eye-opening. And again, like just doing a deeper dive just because I'm in it, my friends are in it, but you know, being able to serve my clients better, you know, just understanding like we have estrogen receptors everywhere, right? And so um, you know, it can shift our digestion. You know, I have clients who are like, I have itchy ears, could that be a sign? I'm like, yeah, it could be a sign, right? Or suddenly getting dizzy, or um, you know, just so many different shifts and and changes. And I'm I'm a big part of like my personal philosophy and then also like how I guide my clients is like being present with what is, right? Like you're you just talked about like observing the the situation and then like being empowered to be like, what do I want to like? Do I want to do something about this? Is this do I just want to like move through this and this too shall pass? Or is there something that I want to shift here that um or see if I can shift here, right? Like, are there steps that I can take and move this needle in some way, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:00

So um yeah, and I'm yeah, you talked about the digestion thing, and that's what I've noticed. There's just things that like things that I used to not be able to eat that I can. Thank you. Ice cream is back. Uh-huh. And then uh things that I used to like that don't sit well with me anymore, like wine. Yeah. Oh yeah. Um, and then there what oh and now garlic bothers me. So it's like things that like didn't, you know, never bothered me before or used to bother me and don't bother me anymore.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Yep, yep. No, I talk about this all the time because um I love spicy food. Um, I grew up in California. I was one of those kids that was like eating jalapeno peppers and like spicy salsa all the time. And um, I don't think my body likes spicy anymore. And um, and you know, and I think this is part of it. Like, I this is such a little tiny example, you know what I mean? Because it's like, who cares about spicy food? But like I think this is a big part of this transition is like an identity shift because even though it's something so small, it's like, wait, am I a person who has to ask for the mild?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

You know, like the bare thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Exactly. Exactly. Like, who is this person, you know? Or my husband's cooking, and I'm like, oh, can you not use like so much of that? And I, you know, I definitely have to be aware of like, oh, that is not who I like. Identify I identified as someone who loves spicy, and like it's it's such a small thing, but it's it to me, it's like this like awareness of of listening, like deep listening, and just being like, okay, well, maybe your spicy era is over, you know, or it's gonna shift and change into some other now into the midlife mild. Exactly, exactly, exactly. But you know, I love that as an example because you know, for other people, not eating spicy food would just not even be on their radar, right? But for me, like that's it's a thing. And so, um, yeah, so I think there's just this, especially like I said, because I'm still in the transition, I'm still getting a cycle. So who knows for how much longer that's gonna happen? It's chaotic, it's uh could be uh 15 days in between, and it could be 60 days, like it's just been doing some some pretty chaotic things now. Um, you know, and and when I often when I teach about perimenopausal, I'll call it like riding the perimenopausal wave, right? Because when you're out on the ocean, like you have no control of the ocean. The ocean is gonna send in the waves that it's gonna send in. Sometimes it's gonna send in a big set, and sometimes there's a big lull in between, but you're the surfer on the surfboard. So how do you want to ride that wave? Or do you go over the wave or you go through the wave? So I just or are you being thrashed around? Are you gonna get thrashed around the aisle? Are you like tumbling in the water, just barely keeping your head above water, right? Like, because for some we and that's really where my like big mission personally, I mean, I will talk. So thank you for giving me this space because I will talk about this at the grocery store. I was at a vacation last year and I'm talking about uh lady. I'm just trying to have a margarita.

unknown 16:04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

I was at a networking event today. We all sorry, I I brought up what I'm doing, so we all started talking about it. So I'm I'm I'm on a mission to just let you know demystify it or destigmatize it, like bring it into the conversation, uh, validate everybody's experience, um, and then have support people, whether it's professionally or just a friend or someone at dance class, like supporting people to get whatever next step help is gonna help them be their best selves, right? And live like the aligned, empowered, beautiful life that they're meant to live, right? Because I think that's that's the exciting part. Like I'm excited to see what this next chapter holds, right? Like what evolution is gonna come with this shift. So I I think there's, and I think that's the other thing too, is like maintaining, like not letting, I think it's good to validate that there's these things that can happen and they're not always pleasant things, and they're not always fun things, and they don't always feel great in our bodies. And also there's great power that can come from this transition too.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

And there's so many transitions that happen at this time. So you talk about like the spicy food, but like, you know, it could be like you decide you want to switch careers or you uh have you know children that are leaving the home for the first time, you know. So there's so all these different things that also happen at this time. I mean, I I don't know if you're finding this. I find this with a lot of the people that I talk to. It's like you're at this point, you're like, Who am I? What do I want to do? Yeah. So I'm I'm having a little bit of that as well of like just like, oh yeah, like where, you know, where like where do I want the next like half of my life? Like assuming I live another 50 years. Like where do I want that to look like, right? Which is your point on like a strength training is helpful because it's like it's not I'm I'm beyond that point of like, listen, I'm not gonna have a flat stomach, this is just not my body, it never will be. This is just who I am now. And and you know, can I be functionally, you know, fit? Can I, you know, be able to still walk up the stairs, still get pick up my groceries, you know, not pick up my dog, you know, those sorts of things. Uh pick up my cat when he was a little bit bigger. Can I do these things and do them comfortably, right? Um that's that's more of my focus at this point. And the joyful movement, like you were saying, like I love like you know, I used to I was in the dancing closet for like years, like I'd dancing, I don't know why. And I I really got into it this year. I I'm taking a tap dancing class and it's so much fun. I haven't taken tap since I was like five years old. Yeah, the moves haven't changed a lot. Um but it's still it's fun, you know, and it's a it's a class, it's not a competitive class, it's just like a community-based class where like everybody's in it just to have fun. I often make up my own moves because I can't figure out what's happening. Um the other day, like in class, literally, the woman looks at me, she's like, I love you, because I'm just like, have some fun over here. You're having a great time, right? Making noise with my feet, and that is all that's happening right now. I mean, other moves I got, but this one we're learning right now. I just I can't get it. And so I'm just making it look good instead.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yeah, no, and it's funny you should say that, Erin, because I did not grow up a dancer at all, whatever that means. I mean, I danced in my backyard to like songs on the radio. Um, and then when I was in my, I was just talking about this today. In my late 30s, I discovered a dance studio. I live here in Oakland, California, and I discovered a dance studio that's more than a dance studio. And I've been dancing for 15 years there, and it is my happy place, it is my joy, it is my connection, it is my community. And it's also like I'm very aware that like the way I move my body now is not how I moved it 15 years ago. And I'm like, great, I'm here, you know what I mean? Like, I'm so grateful that I get to be on this dance floor and be with these amazing humans. And the other thing that I do, and I feel like you would do the same, Erin, or maybe this this person next to you is I take a moment every class just to look around at everybody, right? And to like, I feel my own joy, but just to like watch everybody else's joy, like the collective joy. And you know, this this is what makes our body feel good, you know. I mean, I think you and I both have a little bit of like the science background to know, like, like this is the feel-good hormones that even in the changes that are occurring, like this is what we tap into, is when we're having fun, we're learning something new, we're moving our body, we're community in community, we're in a safe place with people that we can trust and be silly with, right, and be ourselves with. And that is invaluable, right? Like that is that is, I I truly think just as important as what we're eating. This is just as important as getting good rest, right? Um, this is like this is a key part of how we be how we like not just healthy and thriving as individuals, but healthy and thriving as communities, right? As as large communities, right, right? Like if we all were tap dancing, what a better place this world is. Yeah. And I know before the call, you and I talked about improv. I I only did improv for a year, but I used to say all the time, like, if everybody just took an improv class, even if you didn't do it for the rest of your life, everybody just took an improv class, the whole world would be a better place.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

100%. Cause it just it it just brings you into the moment and like being able to talk about the surfboard, right? Just sort of riding the wave of like whatever comes by. I do think it's you know, I've I've said this for years, like that's made me a better employee because or like a manager when you know, and it like pretty much I feel like at this point anyone can say anything to me, and I'd be like, okay. That's it. Figure it out. Um, I don't have that sort of big, you know, reaction. And I I credit a lot of that to just improv training, right? Um, you had mentioned like that you saw a shift in the last three years of like just sort of what's coming, or with like sort of the, I guess maybe the information that's available and stuff. So what do you think's changed and what have you learned the most in the last three years that was different to your other training?

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Yeah, I mean, I think that the awareness that there are many more tools available to us, um, you know, that women are not meant to suffer, you know, really getting that message out there, um, that to advocate for ourselves, you know, in the health world and in the health industry. Um, I think like taking away some of the fears, like if someone does want to do HRT, what's factual, what's true, what's beneficial, what are the risks, what it who is it for, who is it not for? I think that those sort of conversations are are really have been really helpful and really useful. Um, and I think just again, um just it being center stage in a way that I feel like even three years ago it was not, you know. Um so I feel very exciting. I think it's very exciting. And I think um, you know, and I and I guess the other thing I want to encourage with for everybody, because I have to do this for myself as well, is there is also a lot of conversation about it, which is exciting, but can also be like a lot of input, right? It can be like, I don't know what to do, where to start, right? So, you know, I think coming back to the practices like tapping in with yourself, getting clarity with yourself, what am I doing? What do I, what do I want to do? What are my goals? What is the outcome that I want? What's gonna work best for my body? Who are my trusted um, you know, professionals in my life, like health professionals. Um, you know, do I feel heard by my doctor? Do I feel understood by my doctor? And, you know, I'm telling my clients all the time, if you do not, then we need to find you a different doctor, right? Um, so I think that like the the the self-advocacy and I think the the self um I think there's just like better understanding of what actually is happening and better validation than I think previous generations had, you know, where it was this like secret thing, dark thing, thing whispered or not talked about, you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Um so I either suffered in silence or you know, maybe you were vocal about it, but it was like again, your your your feelings weren't validated, right? Or they, you know, it was just sort of like oh, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Right, right, right, exactly. So I'm I'm excited. I feel like I feel like our our generation has so many more tools in place, and then it makes me excited for what we're paying the path that we're paving for the next group of people experiencing paramenopause, right? That that hopefully were we're laying a foundation for even more advocacy and empowerment and choice and opportunities to decide what's best for our bodies, right? Um, so that feels that feels really exciting. And it just so happened to coincide with with my own, you know, shifts and changes, which, you know, it's just been, it's just been an interesting, like I said, I've been holding both of these spaces and places as like someone who um loves doing research, loves doing clinical work, loves working with my clients, loves supporting my clients, loves finding the right resource for people. And then at the same time to like literally and physically and emotionally and spiritually be going through it pretty, pretty deeply myself as well. It's it's it's been an interesting, it's been an interesting ride.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Yeah, for sure. And that's what I keep thinking like the purpose of this, and like I'm an only child, so I don't have any siblings, but I'm like, oh, I I want to be like the older sister that like I I didn't have, you know, right? That I could like I want to tell you like these are the things that are gonna happen to you and like take care of yourself now. You want to be like the are you there, God?

SPEAKER_00 26:16

It's me, Margaret, you know, that's where I first learned about a period, you know.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

It's like right, but it's the opposite, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Not the end of your period.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Exactly. No, I I agree. I yeah, no, it's funny you should say that I have a dear dear friend who's like a sister to me, and she's 10 years younger, and she's we, you know, I actually did support her at the other beginning of the through puberty, because I was in her life then. I've known her since she was 10, and then she's always reaching out to me. She's like, should I be terrified? Should I be where I was like, no, no, no, no. Fear is not the answer, but awareness is empowerment, is, and validation is. So yeah, I like I like that. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

We'll get to sisters, right? Um, if oh, it's just to start a little sorority, like a menopause sorority. Um if people wanted to work with you, how do they find you?

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Yeah, super easy. I'm healthcoachmichelle.com. So healthcoach and then M-I-C-H-E-L-L-E. And I work with clients all across the country. I do all remote, so very, very easy for folks to find me. I'll put it in. All my like social handles are the same, Health Coach Michelle. So you made that easy. I did. I did, I did. Thank you so much, Aaron. This has been amazing.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Anything else you want to share or any parting words?

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Trust yourself. Trust yourself. Like, listen, listen to your body. Your body has a deep, deep wisdom, and listen to your spirit and find the support where you need to find the support because it's out there.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Thank you. Uh, thank you so much for being a guest. I super appreciate it. Um, and thank you all for listening or watching. Um, please feel free to like, comment, share, subscribe. If you're interested in being a guest, please reach out. I would love to have you. I'd love to hear more. I just want to get more stories out there. So please feel free to reach out. Otherwise, have a wonderful day and we will see you next time.